Forum Activity for @Steve3

Data such as supplier information is readily available from sites like panjiva, importgenius, etc. that provide import/export details for much less than $5k; sometimes it is even free.

http://www.greatexportimport.com/buyer-ftcg_enterprises_inc/826888/ningbo_new_tang_intl_trading_co_l

Providing a fee-based business mentoring service may be a better approach for you, Brad. There are lots of business issues not specific to bean-to-bar that many start-ups need guidance in. Marketing, branding, hiring, negotiating, customer service, etc.

Regards,

Steve

Lisa;

I'm probably not going to offer a course. Unless it's something I'm going to do many times over, the up front work isn't economically feasible. I taught software programming at the University of Calgary for several semesters as a contract instructor, so I'm aware of the up front work that chisels away at the per hour bill rate that one can charge.

The whole purpose of my reply was to put things into perspective. Sometimes the sticker shock of an item may seem hefty, but when presented with the alternatives and their associated costs, or in this case the cost savings, the price justifies the outcome.

Those who are serious about making chocolate and were at one time prepared to spend the kind of money I mentioned wouldn't hesitate to pay the fee for the course if they knew it was going to save them the cost of the fee 8-10 times over.

Please don't be offended.

Brad

Lisa, "quite pricey" is all perception. Put it this way:

You could by a Netsch chocolate refiner for $75,000. What if I told you that you could buy a conche/refiner that would do just as good of a job for $30,000 but it would cost you $5,000 to get the information for the company that sells it. THEN... What if I could give you the contact information of a reputable company that could sell you a conche/refinerfor just $6,000 which could do the same thing with almost no maintenance, 24/7 for several yearsas the $75,000 and the same thing as the $30,000 unit?

All of a sudden paying $11,000 ($5,000 to me and $6,000 for the refiner) to save between $19,000 and $64,000becomes a FABULOUS deal.

Anything else I offer in my course is just gravy.

Sometimes business is also about saving money, not just making money.

Cheers

Brad

totally worth it!

There are VERY significant business differences between a home hobbyist, a small artisan, a commercial artisan, and a mass producer of chocolate confections.

However there is almost NO difference between a home artisan and a mass producer of chooclate with the exception of the size of the equipment used. The end result is always the same, and uses the exact same ingredients to make one product and one product only: chocolate.

Scaling a chocolatier is very, very different than scaling a chocolate maker.

Cheers.

Brad

3 days of hands on, accompanied by some thorough documentation is a heck of a lot of information if delivered property. Obviously one isn't going to cover all the in's and out's of a business. I've been starting, financing, and selling businesses for many years and I'm ALWAYS learning something new. The course would simply be a kick start in the right direction, and solid guidance of where to spend and NOT spend precious seed capital. The value of the course comes not from what you learn to do, but where you learn to NOT waste money in this case.

Hope that makes sense.

At least a free fireplace mantle!

I agree. I am sure there are plenty of issues that come up when you scale to a production level that a hobbyist would not be worried about. Everything from storage of the beans and completed chocolate to efficiencies you can leverage when making large batches and even wrapping choices.

I think the actual making of chocolate could even be broken into seperate courses itself - especially if you are talking making hobby chocolate at home versus making chocolate commercially.

Seems to me (as a beginner/hobbyist) that multiple classes might be good.

One class that focuses on the "art" of making chocolate from bean and another that focuses on the business side of things.

As a hobbyist I am currently most concerned with making good chocolate. So roasting profiles, winnowing tools and techniques, refining approaches are all big questions on my list. My goal would be to learn and improve my technique before developing bad habits. Then I can continue to refine my skills until I am ready to take the next step.

At that point I would be interested in the business side. Where I am going to have a whole lot of other questions about bean sourcing in volume, equipment to use, costs / revenue / money stuff, marketing / promotion, etc...

Having said that, the price I would pay for each half is quite different. There are a lot of sources online for getting started with the art side. A little reading and an open mind for experimenting has got me making bars that get a favorable review. So unless it could help me get to the next level in quality I would not look to pay too much. Certainly under 1,000 USD. However for the valuable business insights I would happily pay a lot more. After all, if I am going to invest tens of thousands in equipment and rent 5,000 USD for hard to find knowledge is well worth it, as Brad covers above.

Only my opinion, but I wouldn't have thought 3 days is enough to teach someone to make bean to bar chocolate, operate the machineryand how to setup thebusiness. Would you be assuming a certain level of knowledge re some topics?

What's the value associated with 75,000 hours of experience?

8-)

Funny you should post this Clay... Today I was thinking about putting on a 3 day"bean to bar" course, which would have participants do everything from cocoa bean to chocolate bar, and would also include equipment lists, prices from suppliers and so forth - essentially everything they would need to set up their own chocolate business. All the person would need to do is start making calls and wiring money.

The course would also include an evaluation of various types of equipment, including the plusses and minuses of each, as well as an overview of how to start and run a successful chocolate business.

Full turn key, I was thinking of charging $5,000 per person with a maximum of 3 people per course, and a guarantee that they would save at least $25,000 in unneccessary equipment purchases by taking my course, while at the same time being able to set up a business that could easily handle $500,000 per year in business.

For those truly serious, $5k is a pretty small investment for the information that took me over 3,000 hours to accumulate.

Any thoughts?

Brad.

In another discussion here on TheChocolateLife, member Mahmoud Baktaji asked about existing bean-to-bar chocolate schools to attend.

Based on responses to that post, I thought it would be interesting to ask the question directly to members:

If someone was going to be developing a hands-on bean-to-bar chocolate school, what would/should the curriculum include? What would be a good location for it? What techniques and equipment should be covered? And -- finally and importantly -- what would you be willing to pay to attend such a school?

Aloha Sean!

Congratulations on your first client! We have a strong history in supporting "fledgling" companies and will be happy to help you in any way we can. Please contact me either by phone 717-747-5895 or email marc@marclaucks.com and we'll discuss your needs in greater detail. Yes, we do make boxes with clear film windows.

Best,

Marc

Aloha Marc,

Thank you for such wonderful information. I am starting a fledgling company here in Maui. We have our first client and need to have a custom box made for our bar. I am looking for a box with a window to display. Also, do you make a box with a plastic window installed in the box?

Our dimensions are 5 1/2 x 2 3/4 x 1/2 inch. ...........Sean @ Maui Chocolate Co.

Yes indeed. Great insight Dirke!

Digital printing is ideal in many cases. We get excellent results with producing chocolate keys, inserts and other short run color jobs digitally. The problem is often with toner-based digital printing on heavier stocks (like that used for boxes)----depending on the design, cracking can appear along areas where a score/fold runs against the paper grain. This is why it's best to work with someone with experience and someone you feel you can trust.

Keep in mind,if you do get boxes made you will have to get a diecut made. These tend to be a little pricey ranging from $200+ depending on the complexity of the box. Standard offset printing ( I believe Mark is referring to ) is great if you are doing large amounts and will reprint in the future as metal plates are used for the printing process and can be reused. However again, they are metal plates and cost. Alternative solution would be to go digital print, it's cost effective for lower quantities, gives you the flexibility to create different looks or make changes without the over head of making new plates. BUT, there are different forms of digital print, highend and basically color photocopiers. Ask your local printer if they do both or can offer any suggestions. I've been in the print business for 20 years and still do print brokering on the side to bring in extra income in the slower chocolate months. Any questions I'm happy to help.

Fantastic Marc! thanks for the information I ll direct message you when Im closer to my packaging needs.

Thanks again,

Kelly

Hi Kelly,

A typical press sheet used to trim out various packaging products is fairly large in size. By way of example, our gang run business cards are run "64 up" meaning that 64 different people from all over the country have their cards produced on the same press sheet. This is why they're so affordable.

Before the days of "gang run printing" a box of full color business cards could easily cost $1000, today they're less than $60. You can see from the embedded image how a press sheet is utilized to print several different packaging items...there's a bar box and a few different sized sleeves and trays. Assuming several different buyers agree on a quantity, it's easy for everyone to save since only one set of printing plates and one press run is used to produce items for multiple people. Feel free to contact me directly if I can provide more information!

I would also be interested in that option however I am in the very beginning stages and would be looking purely for informational purposes right now.

Thanks Marc

I have a customer who buys several thousand plain white boxes but they have a tuck flap on the top and bottom.

We can run them with or without a window.

If you'll provide some information on how many you have a need for and the size of the bars, I'll get back to you with some information. Typically, what we do in this case is aggregate several orders together, run a large production run and then drop ship to each location. This allows everyone to "gang" their orders together and saves a lot of money over each person buying a small quantity on their own. There are affordable options to print the boxes as well. Marc

I don't know much about the packaging industry. However, my company has a client that does do work in that sort of thing.They call themselves a corrugated box company.

Aloha,

I am looking for this same product (blank generic boxes) so I can place my own sticker label on multiple bars.

If someone could send both of us in the right direction it would be much appreciated.

Thank you all for helping us........Sean G

Hello

I have been looking for a supplier of the those thin cardboard packaging boxes which are folded over and glued down over the chocolate bars. The chocolate itself is either flow wrapped or foil wrapped.

This type of box seems is used by manufacturers such as Theo Chocolate, Ghiradelli, Lindt, etc. Does anyone know the technical name of these kind of boxes?

These are usually custom printed but I would love to find blank generic boxes to which I can affix a product sticker instead. (I don't want to committ to buying a huge order of custom printed boxes just yet.)

Thanks in advance!!

Hi,

Does anyone, by any chance,know of good chocolate courses in Hong Kong?

Sebastian:

That's a great topic. I started a new forum discussion just for that purpose.

I'd urge folks to start thinking about what they'd like to see, what priced right means, and what they'd like to learn.

Sebastian:

Priced right, located here in the US, and hands-on.

Absolutely yes.

ZDS in germany has one.

I wonder if there's sufficient critical mass to create a new one?

http://www.ecolechocolat.com/

hey there

does anyone have any idea or information about chocolate schools orinstitutes in which they offer courses about the production/making of chocolate from A to Z as well as fillings and the chemistry of chocolate ..like a course for month or 3 with a degree or something close to that .

any help will be highly appreciated

Not roasting will eventually lead to you either making someone very sick, or killing them. The topic has been been discussed quite thoroughly here and on the alchemy board.

I simply can not figure out where this notion of not roasting = healthier comes from, and why it's so persistent.

Hi everyone,

I've recently been doing research on how to properly process cocoa beans. I use to think that truly raw was the way to go, but then I've read that truly raw would not produce that chocolate flavor. My main concern is which process would be healthiest and tasty. I've became very curious in this when I've noticed that regular cacao powder that I would buy would give me headaches(I'm sensitive to a lot of foods) . I currently live in the Philippines, and noticed all the local cacao products also give me a headache and the flavor was a little too strong where I would eventually get sick of the taste too. When I tried labeled "raw" cacao powder from companies like earth circle organics and Andean treasures when i lived in the states, I've noticed less of a potent chocolate smell and less of a strong dark chocolate flavor, but it seemed like just the right balance in flavor for me. Plus I felt good on it and I didn't notice any headaches. l also noticed that the cacao powder of these products were also lighter in color compared to the regular cocao powder. Whether they are considered truly raw or not, It doesn't matter to me. All I know is the taste was more pleasant to me and I felt good on it, so I figured they must be doing something right. Being in the Philippines, I have access to heirloom cacao beans which would be much cheaper for me and would like to know if anyone would be able to give me an idea of how these cacao products that I've mentioned may have been processed, so I can try making some healthy delicious snacks for my family and I. A friend of mine in the states believes they were made by fermenting the beans and then grinding them which produces most of the heat, but they were not roasted. Any input would be much appreciated! Thanks!

Cheers!

Glad I can help.

Brad

You're the best for giving me this information. I will use it on my next attempt. Thank you so much. And you, too Brad, for your help.

Susan,

I'm no expert but I'll tell you what helped me... first, much more aggressive stirring. After every 6-10 candies were dipped I'd give it a quick but aggressive stir with the dipping fork, and I didn't turn my back on it for a second. In the past, I've often run out of prepared centers before I run out of chocolate, then I turn away from the machine to scoop more truffles, and when I turn back I've got chocolate the consistency of taffy... but I'm realizing the turning motor on the temperer is not enough agitation, it takes regular stirring and if you aren't actively dipping you need to stir very frequently, if not constantly! So this time before I started I made sure I had more centers prepped than I could possibly need, and had my mom hold the baby and made sure my bladder was empty so there was no reason to neglect my chocolate!

Also, today I was getting a lot of "feet" so I dipped at a lower temp of 89, which meant I had lots of room to ease up the temp as Brad suggested as it thickened. I did not wait for it to be too thick to dip and then try to recover, this doesn't work for me either. But this time I watched like a hawk as I dipped, and as soon as I noticed the consistency was the slightest bit thicker than ideal, I scooted up one degree and stirred like a madwoman. I only got as high as 92 and was still in business when I finished my chocolate, but see above - Brad thinks we can get away with 95 depending on thermometer accuracy.

Good luck!
Amy

Brad -

I've read all these facts before, but this is the clearest explanation I've seen and I think I'm finally wrapping my mind around it - THANK YOU!

Amy

Wow. I have a Chocovision Delta and the same thing happens to me. It ends up in a ball in an hour. After checking with a thermometer, I increased temp to 93-96 but it is no help. I have no idea what to do. Did I not wait long enough? 10-20 minutes.And can I add melted, untempered chocolate to the otehr side to help? If so, how much when it is at this point? I was using Callebaut: 3/4 811NV and 1/4 823NV on this try.

Amy;

Chocolate is a suspension of particles in a fat that crystalizes, and is crystalizing 100% of the time it is being agitated in the ACMC. If you were to stop the motor from turning, it would go solid at it's working temperature. The fluidity of chocolate can be controlled by agitation and very tiny adjustments in temperature throughout the day as you work with it. Combine that with the fact that the ACMC thermocouples aren't that accurate (I own 8 of those machines), and you have chocolate that is going solid on you while you work with it.

As it thickens, bring the temperature of your machine up one degree at a time and stir it lots. It won't happen instantly, but the chocolate will thin out without coming out of temper.

Verify your chocolate temperature with a properly calibrated thermometer, and you will most likely find that while your machine reads 91, the temperature of the chocolate at the thermocouple is probably only 88 or 89. This means you can easily go as high as 95 on that machine.

Note that controlling viscosity of your chocolate is a two way street. Once you learn to control the fluidity as you work with it, you can ALSO thicken it the same way by going in the opposite direction, and that has uses too!

Cheers.

Brad

Hi

I've been a hobbyist chocolatier for a few years. I have an ACMC table top temperer.
Two frustrations - when dipping with 65 percent Tcho, I fully temper (up to 119,
added seed, back up to 91 for dipping), it works great for about an hour, then it gets too thick to continue dipping. I heated up to 94 but it was still too thick. I understand I could add cocoa butter, but I love the flavor of the superdark stuff, and it works so well for the first hour. For now my plan is to do smalleramounts so I use it up before it thickens, any other suggestions? I don't understand what's happening from a chemistry perspective.

Also, I've often tried not tempering since new chocolate is already in temper, right?
My understanding is that I should be able to melt it and dip at 92ish. But I find
that it won't melt unless I get it much warmer than this, and if I understand
correctly, once I get it above 94 I have to go through the whole temper process
to avoid bloom. Can you correct any of these assumptions?

Any advice appreciated.

-Amy